Comments on: The Anti-Value of Complaints and Criticism

By: Megan M.

Megan M. — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:42:29 +0000

This is fascinating stuff—I think I am finding that I really do disagree, though, at least about complaining. (Criticism I'm thinking about—I do think constructive criticism is a good thing, but at the same time, I am starting to be of the opinion that it may not be the best way to go about helping someone. Still working on that.)

In regards to complaining, I think we have different definitions we're using. Mine is something like this: Complaining is continuing to dwell on a negative issue after the initial moment of acknowledgement without actively working towards some kind of solution (or letting it go).

I think your use of “kvetching” here is adorable though.

By: Megan M.

Megan M. — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:42:29 +0000

I think your use of “kvetching” here is adorable though.

By: Green

Green — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:47:40 +0000

There are certainly other words that could be used..

Venting vs Complaining vs Kvetching
Critiquing vs Criticizing vs Bashing

In both cases I see the words as going from productive to neutral to unproductive, and the first line describing more emotionally charged behavior.

But that's just how I see it. :)

By: Megan M.

Megan M. — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:46:41 +0000

I really like this way of looking at it – that it's necessary to talk about difficulties and get support, but that there's a line between stating a complaint and taking that complaint further without being willing to let it go, get over it, or take action. I'm not completely sure how to define that line yet, but we're certainly managing to ourselves closer to a definition.

Do we need words other than “complaint” and “criticism”? Are they not appropriate words for the behaviors we're talking about? I could go either way—very curious!

By: Nick

Nick — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:06:20 +0000

yeah. i tried to stay away from a judgmental attitude toward it. which is btw why the quoted line can easily be thought of as being acceptable. still, my own biases may be seeping through. =P

i also find the appeal to others in order to obtain support to be acceptable. everyone does it. in fact, i think we do really NEED it at times. i place some caution with the obsessive usage of complaining backed by a reservation to do anything about it. i see two clear choices when complaining: working to change the problem or acceptance of the problem. now, find a way to pick one option and move on.

By: Green

Green — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:26:10 +0000

I guess I don't see how “an attempt to appeal to the sympathy of others so you'll get support” is so bad. It can get annoying if it's constantly employed as a way of garnering attention. But in moderation there's nothing wrong with wanting a friend to listen to your problem. After your need for compassion is met and you feel safe and listened to, then you can get along with the business of fixing the problem. :)

By: Missy

Missy — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:46:11 +0000

Nice post Megan. :)

By: Megan M.

Megan M. — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:16:25 +0000

So that makes me wonder—how would you couch a need to avoid negativity, if the words you use aren't already defined in ways that allow you to steer clear of them? What funny grey areas we've got!

Also, I'm going to see about limiting these comments to a couple of nested threads instead of infinite nested threads—we're getting SQUISHED! :D Heehee!

By: Megan M.

Megan M. — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:14:02 +0000

I was discussing this with Em and thinking about it – I think the definition of the words is a big issue with discussions like these, because I can totally see what you're saying and how you're defining your terms, but I definite mine differently in order to make more concrete the behavior I don't want to engage in. I suspect that Dale's definitions are skewed toward complaining that accomplishes nothing but negative reminders, and criticism that serves to let the other person know they have something to feel bad about—rather than behavior that serves to push us towards positive ends and growth.

So for your first paragraph, for instance, I would say: You can acknowledge mistakes and help a person to change and grow without engaging in harsh criticism—and you can call that criticism, too, but there is one kind that I'd steer clear of. And when it comes to complaining, it's one thing to make a speculative statement—but quite another to say a thing (or repeat it) for the purpose of having others feel bad about you, or feeling like the most important (most miserable) person in the room.

By: Nick

Nick — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:02:07 +0000

*nods in agreement about criticism*
the term "constructive criticism" comes to mind. we shouldn't be afraid to work with people to improve the quality of anything. which is the purpose of criticism.

the difference i typically see between complaining and criticism is that complaining is not usually intended to improve the situation but instead a cry that the world is not as you wish.

another distinction:
complaining is an attempt to appeal to the sympathy of others so you'll get support.
criticizing is an attempt to appeal to the other person so they'll improve their work.